This is Jay, Dissin Jay Will Get You Mase'd
When I start spittin them lyrics niggaz get very religious
Six hail mary's please father forgive us
Young, the archbishop, the Pope John Paul of y'all niggaz
They way y'all all follow Jigga
Hov's a livin legend and I'll tell you why
Everybody wanna be Hov and Hov's still alive
Let me open this up by stating, first and foremost, that this is ALL speculative. I know none of the players (pun? Me?) personally, and aside from my status as a lifetime fan of this art-form (I’ve been with Hip-hop since ’81, and while I appreciate that there are some with better pedigrees, they number few. Living life shuttled between Philly and North Jersey, coupled with a sharp mind, and a love for controversy has allowed me to trace, research, and recount many battles), I have no additional inside information. Disclaimer done.
Jay vs. Cam. Why? Well, it is a well known fact that Cam hates Jay, and always has. When he signed to the Roc, he stated (in an XXL interview that I can’t cite because... Hell, because it is my blog, I don’t have the time or the inclination to look that shit up. Check my facts on your own time, nukka,) that he “really [didn’t] mess with dude,” and that the Diplomat projects are sort of self contained. Jay did make an appearance on “Come Walk With Me”, but was noticeably absent from the mix-tape tour that proceeded the album.
In my humble opinion, their beef had its genesis in a throwaway line in a throwaway track. Mase, who was then signed to Bad Boy, made a reference in the remix of a Total (remember them?) song that referred to rappers hollering about how much money they make, yet don’t have a Platinum album Jay, who hadn’t gone platinum before Vol. 2, Hard Knock Life, took offense at the slight and went at Mase -- subliminally – through “Imaginary Player.”
Then, Jay thoroughly punished Mase with this verse:
Now, Mase and Cam were still Harlem World (before Mase jacked the name for a horrible album) and I impagine Cam was none too pleased with the exchange. Fast forward a couple of years, around the time of the horrible Vol. 3, and Cam drops “Let Me Know, wherein he says:
Which, street conjecture suggests is directly aimed at Jay, who was yelling “bounce” in every ad lib.
Alls quiet on the home front for a couple of years. Cam and the Dip-Set come over to the Roc, at the behest of Dame Dash, and everybody plays nice for a while. Jay, during the Summer of 2002, spends the summer in Europe, wooing Beyonce. [Pay attention to this, because it comes up later in the story]. Meanwhile, Dame names Cam Vice-President at the Roc, and fires several Roc-a-fella employees. Jay learns of these changes upon his return, and immediately retracts Cam’s offer, and re-hires all of the terminated staffers. Interestingly, if Dame, Jay and Biggs were all equal partners, this would not have occurred, because it would be easy to assume that Dame had Biggs would out-vote Jay, and even easier to assume that the two [Dame and Biggs] had discussed and agreed to the changes. Thus, I must conclude that Jay had a controlling interest in the company, explaining his wealth relative to the remaining partners. It also is the first public sign of any trouble among the partners.
Then- and this is where the story (and this post) gets really ghetto- Dame and Jay start beefing, ironically right around the time of the Paid in Full movie. Word on the street is that Jay was none too pleased with being involved in making a movie about some of the “Harlem Players” of the 80’s, if only because these same folks, namely AZ and Alpo, were notorious snitches. Lest we forget, President Carter does have a background in the underworld, and aside from a Rayful reference (google Rayful Edmonds, though the DC peeps need not) in “Can I Live” and a “Rich and [Al]Po” reference in the “Mind Right Rmx”, has been very careful NOT to name names.
Well, seems Dame [allegedly] rolled with Alpo, and the movie’s treatment of the man ends in a very flattering way. Ironically, it was Cam who played Alpo in the movie. Remember, while Cam’s character became a government informant at the movie’s close, he steadfastly refused to name anyone in Harlem. Well, digression this is not. It is alleged that upon Alpo’s release from jail –though I have not confirmed that Alpo was indeed released- Dame and company threw him a private party, something that Jay wanted no part in/of. Thus the split between the two, again allegedly.
It is not a secret that Dame was none too happy to lose Roc-a-fella. And while Cam hasn’t aligned himself with DDMG (Damon Dash Music Group), he still rolls with Dame. Dame’s gripes may come from the fact that he was powerless to stop the sale of the Roc to Def Jam.
Fast forward to summer 2005, which was lack-luster musically, and Jim Jones (who is a derisive post in and of himself...Millions More speaker my ass) releases Summer in Miami:
All of which I took as a diss, so I can imagine how Jay took it. Now, Jones is referring to “Dear Summer” which was Hov’s “dear John” to the season. But he didn’t exit without taking a parting shot [allegedly at Game, though it is rumored that Cam could also be the recipient] at his foes...
Which leads us to where we are now. Cam basically indicts Jay for 5 crimes:
1. Stealing Roc-a-fella from Dame;
2. Stealing Kanye from Dame;
3. Stole Roc-a-wear from Dame
4. Having something to do with his shooting in DC;
5. and he's old and wears jeans and sandles
First, the stealing thing may or may not have some merit. But it is business, and in Jay’s defense all he wanted...all he asked for...was the rights to his very favorite album-Reasonable Doubt. That was it. Dame would still have the Roc, if he had agreed. Dame said no. All in all, it was a poor business decision. Reasonable Doube, while Jay’s best work, and one of the greatest albums – rap or otherwise- of all time, is not a commercial album. It never was, and never will be. It took the record 8 years to sell a million copies, and I personally have bought it 4-5 times. It will not generate the money that the rest of the catalog would. And, moreover “Mr. Ultimate Hustler”, you would have a brand [remember schooling the hustlers on the word?] that was known and trusted among white people, and let’s face it, THAT’s who you are selling to. Moron.
Stealing Kanye-eh, it’s business. C’mon “Mr. Ultimate Hustler”, Lyor Cohen has been trying to steal Jay from you for years. Damn. Why you mad for?
Stealing Roc-a-wear - Uh, business. Damn if I don't feel redundant.
Jeans and Sandles- I do that. Can’t hate at all.
The Shooting- On message boards across the negronets, the following two points have been made. One-and I am paraphrasing here- “What’s the nigga do, put the gun down, throw up the dynasty diamond, then pick it up and start blasting? Can you picture that? And two, how, Mr. Camron, do you know that Diamond Dallas Paige ain’t try to get you merked? Them wrestling niggaz is hard! Assuming Cam is correct, then damn, do you think they'll miss next time?
Now, I wouldn’t be the intellectually honest man that I am if I didn’t point out that Cam’s “Swagger Jacker” track points out some aggressive “big ups” to many rappers, including Rakim, Slick Rick, Tupac, Biggie (of course) and Snoop. Personally, I let them slide, as it doesn’t detract from the man, but hip-hop is less forgiving, and moreover Jay’s ego won’t let this go.
Will Jay respond? Hmmm. Selfishly, I want him to—yet I don’t. He has to. Of that there can be no question. But there is nothing for him to gain. Taking the high road, particularly in light of declaring Beef wack at the Jay and Nas reunion, is probably more instructive to our black youth. But, he spent the last 2 summers throwing darts at Fat Joe (fuck the Rucker) and the Game (Fuck cars with chrome rims, I got apartments you can put your home in), AFTER stating that subliminals are corney, so now, faced with a direct assault, he should lace this cat once and for all. [Hell, it’s interesting that Cam hates the Pastor, but now that the Pastor’s rolling with G-Unit, he has nothing to say.] He has to, because while I love his appearances on remixes, they will generate less buzz without a reply to this. And generating Buzz is what a good CEO does. Isn’t that right Mr. President?
Six hail mary's please father forgive us
Young, the archbishop, the Pope John Paul of y'all niggaz
They way y'all all follow Jigga
Hov's a livin legend and I'll tell you why
Everybody wanna be Hov and Hov's still alive
Let me open this up by stating, first and foremost, that this is ALL speculative. I know none of the players (pun? Me?) personally, and aside from my status as a lifetime fan of this art-form (I’ve been with Hip-hop since ’81, and while I appreciate that there are some with better pedigrees, they number few. Living life shuttled between Philly and North Jersey, coupled with a sharp mind, and a love for controversy has allowed me to trace, research, and recount many battles), I have no additional inside information. Disclaimer done.
Jay vs. Cam. Why? Well, it is a well known fact that Cam hates Jay, and always has. When he signed to the Roc, he stated (in an XXL interview that I can’t cite because... Hell, because it is my blog, I don’t have the time or the inclination to look that shit up. Check my facts on your own time, nukka,) that he “really [didn’t] mess with dude,” and that the Diplomat projects are sort of self contained. Jay did make an appearance on “Come Walk With Me”, but was noticeably absent from the mix-tape tour that proceeded the album.
In my humble opinion, their beef had its genesis in a throwaway line in a throwaway track. Mase, who was then signed to Bad Boy, made a reference in the remix of a Total (remember them?) song that referred to rappers hollering about how much money they make, yet don’t have a Platinum album Jay, who hadn’t gone platinum before Vol. 2, Hard Knock Life, took offense at the slight and went at Mase -- subliminally – through “Imaginary Player.”
I guess for every buck you make it’s like a hundred to me
And still you running around thinking you got something on me...
Then, Jay thoroughly punished Mase with this verse:
I bruise wack rap niggaz severely punish them
Especially those that get fucked for they publishing, heh
Always gotta be the weakest nigga out the crew
I probably make more money off yo' album, than you [Jay is thought to have written Puffy’s lines]
You see the respect I get every time I come through
Check your own videos, you'll always be number two
Niggaz talkin real greasy on them R&B records
but I'm platinum a million times nigga, check the credits
S. Carter, ghost writer, and for the right price
I can even make YO' shit tighter...
Now, Mase and Cam were still Harlem World (before Mase jacked the name for a horrible album) and I impagine Cam was none too pleased with the exchange. Fast forward a couple of years, around the time of the horrible Vol. 3, and Cam drops “Let Me Know, wherein he says:
We bout to spit hospitable
Physical, but shit is gettin critical
The way cats bitin is despicable
Pitiful, unoriginal, this shit is miserable
I'm a businessman, I ain't tryin to be lyrical
Damn it's a miracle, thought y'all was veterans
Wish your flow was ill huh?
Mine was your medicine
Now you're in the game
Lame sound the best you've ever been
Play right I'll catch you late night nigga like Letterman
Get thirty thou now your actions begun
Actin and fun nigga after taxes you're done
Cars impounded, New York must stop bitin and start writin
And stop mouthing [?]
When the fuck we start bouncin?
Which, street conjecture suggests is directly aimed at Jay, who was yelling “bounce” in every ad lib.
Alls quiet on the home front for a couple of years. Cam and the Dip-Set come over to the Roc, at the behest of Dame Dash, and everybody plays nice for a while. Jay, during the Summer of 2002, spends the summer in Europe, wooing Beyonce. [Pay attention to this, because it comes up later in the story]. Meanwhile, Dame names Cam Vice-President at the Roc, and fires several Roc-a-fella employees. Jay learns of these changes upon his return, and immediately retracts Cam’s offer, and re-hires all of the terminated staffers. Interestingly, if Dame, Jay and Biggs were all equal partners, this would not have occurred, because it would be easy to assume that Dame had Biggs would out-vote Jay, and even easier to assume that the two [Dame and Biggs] had discussed and agreed to the changes. Thus, I must conclude that Jay had a controlling interest in the company, explaining his wealth relative to the remaining partners. It also is the first public sign of any trouble among the partners.
Then- and this is where the story (and this post) gets really ghetto- Dame and Jay start beefing, ironically right around the time of the Paid in Full movie. Word on the street is that Jay was none too pleased with being involved in making a movie about some of the “Harlem Players” of the 80’s, if only because these same folks, namely AZ and Alpo, were notorious snitches. Lest we forget, President Carter does have a background in the underworld, and aside from a Rayful reference (google Rayful Edmonds, though the DC peeps need not) in “Can I Live” and a “Rich and [Al]Po” reference in the “Mind Right Rmx”, has been very careful NOT to name names.
Well, seems Dame [allegedly] rolled with Alpo, and the movie’s treatment of the man ends in a very flattering way. Ironically, it was Cam who played Alpo in the movie. Remember, while Cam’s character became a government informant at the movie’s close, he steadfastly refused to name anyone in Harlem. Well, digression this is not. It is alleged that upon Alpo’s release from jail –though I have not confirmed that Alpo was indeed released- Dame and company threw him a private party, something that Jay wanted no part in/of. Thus the split between the two, again allegedly.
It is not a secret that Dame was none too happy to lose Roc-a-fella. And while Cam hasn’t aligned himself with DDMG (Damon Dash Music Group), he still rolls with Dame. Dame’s gripes may come from the fact that he was powerless to stop the sale of the Roc to Def Jam.
Fast forward to summer 2005, which was lack-luster musically, and Jim Jones (who is a derisive post in and of himself...Millions More speaker my ass) releases Summer in Miami:
I say that to say this
if you think that bitch
the summer is yours
she could be cheating on you...
but I said I'm love sick over this hot ass hoochie
and I seen her when I told Nas,
I’d slap off his coofie
We don't play disrespect but that was the day that me met
Summer Jam 02’, I hit the stage with my set
her man, he was from Brooklyn she still slipped me the number
she said he's on vacation ...
All of which I took as a diss, so I can imagine how Jay took it. Now, Jones is referring to “Dear Summer” which was Hov’s “dear John” to the season. But he didn’t exit without taking a parting shot [allegedly at Game, though it is rumored that Cam could also be the recipient] at his foes...
It's like when niggaz make subliminal records
If it ain't directed directly at me, I don't respect it
You don't really want it with Hov, for the record
I put a couple careers on hold, you could be next kid
Keep entering the danger zone
You gon' make that boy Hov put your name in a song
Which leads us to where we are now. Cam basically indicts Jay for 5 crimes:
1. Stealing Roc-a-fella from Dame;
2. Stealing Kanye from Dame;
3. Stole Roc-a-wear from Dame
4. Having something to do with his shooting in DC;
5. and he's old and wears jeans and sandles
First, the stealing thing may or may not have some merit. But it is business, and in Jay’s defense all he wanted...all he asked for...was the rights to his very favorite album-Reasonable Doubt. That was it. Dame would still have the Roc, if he had agreed. Dame said no. All in all, it was a poor business decision. Reasonable Doube, while Jay’s best work, and one of the greatest albums – rap or otherwise- of all time, is not a commercial album. It never was, and never will be. It took the record 8 years to sell a million copies, and I personally have bought it 4-5 times. It will not generate the money that the rest of the catalog would. And, moreover “Mr. Ultimate Hustler”, you would have a brand [remember schooling the hustlers on the word?] that was known and trusted among white people, and let’s face it, THAT’s who you are selling to. Moron.
Stealing Kanye-eh, it’s business. C’mon “Mr. Ultimate Hustler”, Lyor Cohen has been trying to steal Jay from you for years. Damn. Why you mad for?
Stealing Roc-a-wear - Uh, business. Damn if I don't feel redundant.
Jeans and Sandles- I do that. Can’t hate at all.
The Shooting- On message boards across the negronets, the following two points have been made. One-and I am paraphrasing here- “What’s the nigga do, put the gun down, throw up the dynasty diamond, then pick it up and start blasting? Can you picture that? And two, how, Mr. Camron, do you know that Diamond Dallas Paige ain’t try to get you merked? Them wrestling niggaz is hard! Assuming Cam is correct, then damn, do you think they'll miss next time?
Now, I wouldn’t be the intellectually honest man that I am if I didn’t point out that Cam’s “Swagger Jacker” track points out some aggressive “big ups” to many rappers, including Rakim, Slick Rick, Tupac, Biggie (of course) and Snoop. Personally, I let them slide, as it doesn’t detract from the man, but hip-hop is less forgiving, and moreover Jay’s ego won’t let this go.
Will Jay respond? Hmmm. Selfishly, I want him to—yet I don’t. He has to. Of that there can be no question. But there is nothing for him to gain. Taking the high road, particularly in light of declaring Beef wack at the Jay and Nas reunion, is probably more instructive to our black youth. But, he spent the last 2 summers throwing darts at Fat Joe (fuck the Rucker) and the Game (Fuck cars with chrome rims, I got apartments you can put your home in), AFTER stating that subliminals are corney, so now, faced with a direct assault, he should lace this cat once and for all. [Hell, it’s interesting that Cam hates the Pastor, but now that the Pastor’s rolling with G-Unit, he has nothing to say.] He has to, because while I love his appearances on remixes, they will generate less buzz without a reply to this. And generating Buzz is what a good CEO does. Isn’t that right Mr. President?
posted by Sonnyredd at 2:06 PM
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